The Indian Immigration Registers, or as they are popularly known, the Ships Lists, are a unique record of the coming to Natal from India of over 150 000 migrants between the years 1860 and 1911. During that period there were gaps of several years when migration, for various reasons, was interrupted.
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| Detail from page of Indian Immigration Register |
Information given includes Registration (or Indenture) Number, Name, Father's name, Caste, Age, Height, Zillah (Province of origin in India), Thanna (nearest big town), Village and name of Employer to whom the migrant was to be indentured. Ship arrival date is given and also included are descriptions of physical marks - scars, tattoos etc. There may be additional subsequent events in the career of a particular migrant, such as death or his/her return to India.
A mammoth voluntary project to index these registers has resulted in the publication of a database searchable by name of migrant, as well as by Registration Number, displayed in columns corresponding with those found in the original lists (except for the column pertaining to physical marks which has been omitted). This database or index not only avoids excessive use of the original material, which is a plus in terms of preservation, but provides an accessible facility for research purposes – especially in the case of descendants wishing to trace migrant ancestors.
However, it should be emphasised that while the Migrants Index is a wonderful resource, it is not a magic wand. The information it offers requires interpretation; it demands some knowledge and effort on the part of the descendant/researcher, as well as the use of archival and other records in conjunction with the Index. Further discussion on this aspect in future posts.
To order a copy of the CD Indian Migrants to Natal: Ships Lists (1860-1911) GSSA CD011 ISBN 978-0-9869742-2-9 (Copyright J.B.Brain) contact the Genealogical Society of South Africa (GSSA): aheydenr@mweb.co.za
The Ships Lists are also available online at http://scnc.ukzn.ac.za/doc/SHIP/shipndx.html
In this version the lists are searchable by Registration Number.
*Durban Archives Repository
Nashua House
14 De Mazenod Lane
GREYVILLE Durban
dbnarchives@kznedu.kzntl.gov.za
Tel: (031) 309 5682
Hours: 8 a.m.- 4 p.m. weekdays.
24.05.2014
ReplyDeleteI am from Malaysia. I would like to know the source or agency that has ship list on Indian Migrants from South India to Malaya (now Malaysia)? email> vishallachi@gmail.com
Regret I only have information on Indian migrants to South Africa. You would need to approach archives in Malaysia to find out if any such migrant lists have survived for that area. Sorry I can't be of more help.
ReplyDeleteHow to trave my ancestors from india to south africa
DeleteHi
ReplyDeleteI am trying to find details of someone who's number does not match the standard list. This number begins with DCCL/4*****. Please let me know if you can help.
Hello, it sounds to me as if you have a colonial number (or some other number) rather than the registration number which was given to indentured migrants as they entered Natal. Colonial numbers were issued only to those persons born in Natal. I suggest you enter your number into naairs index and see what emerges, either with or without the ancestor's surname or other details. Mole
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteMy name is Anuj and I am from India.
I am in need of information of Indians in Durban (SA).
It would be of great help.
Anuj
Hi Anuj: tracing Natal Indian ancestry is a complicated matter and there are no shortcuts, unfortunately. As a start, you might want to search using the facility on this blog's left hand top corner, entering search terms such as 'indian immigrants', 'indentured indians', 'indenture + Natal' etc and read what comes up. Firstly you must establish whether your ancestors were indentured Indians who came to Natal under contract to work, or whether they were so-called 'passenger Indians' who paid their own passage out and could live wherever they wanted, many of them becoming storekeepers etc.
ReplyDeleteTry to gather as much information from your family as you can before starting your quest: you need details such as spouse name for an ancestor, which can help cut down on hits; also familiarise yourself with the NAAIRS index where there may be references, such as deceased estate files mentioning your ancestor/s. Use the NAAIRS database NAB for Natal.
good day,
ReplyDeletei am trying to trace my roots back but cannot locate the shipment documents on the UKZN folder to verify numbers of great grandparents who travelled to south africa. it says the servers at ukzn have no document links anymore. who can assist me urgently? thank you
You're right - the previous link for shipping lists is apparently no longer online; I don't know why.
ReplyDeleteYou could get the relevant CD Rom from GSSA (Genealogical Society of SA). It is CD 011 ISBN 978-0-9869742-2-9. Title: Indian Migrants to Natal: Ships Lists 1860-1911. This material was the work of volunteers using the original registers held at Durban Archives. Copyright J B Brain. The latest address I have for GSSA contact, to order the CD, is aheydenr@mweb.co.za
Hi there
ReplyDeleteI have managed to obtain my great great grandfather's indenture number as well as a certificate from ukzn archives. However I'd like to find out if it's possible for me to trace his children using this number as I am in need of my great grandfather's particulars. Any idea how I can go about this?
Hi there
ReplyDeleteI have managed to obtain my great great grandfather's indenture number as well as a certificate from ukzn archives. However I'd like to find out if it's possible for me to trace his children using this number as I am in need of my great grandfather's particulars. Any idea how I can go about this?
You would need to search NAAIRS index online for any sign of a deceased estate file for your great grandfather. If one exists the Death Notice would be informative. A Death Notice is not the same as a Death Certificate, by the way. You can read more about that in my Beginners Guide don this blog. You could also traced estate files for his descendants if their names are known to you. Are you aware of the year of death for your great grandfather?
ReplyDeleteThank you for your reply. I do know his year of death and actually have a death certificate for him but unfortunately he passed away in Rhodesia, not South Africa. I have searched the NAAIRS Index but cannot find any information pertaining to my great grandfather or his father.
DeleteYes, it is unfortunate that his death took place outside of SA. Although if he had owned property in this country there would have been a Death Notice. It may be worth your while identifying more recent family members whose deceased estate files crop up on NAAIRS - even grandchildren or great grandchildren, the latter being your own generation of descendants - and gradually work back to the earlier relatives.
ReplyDeleteI'm seeking information regarding my late grandfather, Morgan Lall, he was married to Elizabeth David's a South African. ...she died on the 11.10.1952. ..they had a dry cleaner in Queenstown.Eastern Cape ..he came to South Africa, from India in the late 1800s. I would like to know more about his family and where abouts. I looked at the shiplist, his name does not appear there only the surname.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHello, I received your comment, but in triplicate so I had to remove two of these to save blog space.
ReplyDeleteThe only Indian migrants who appear on the so-called Ships Lists are indentured immigrants, most of whom worked on plantations or on the railways, coal mines etc. Your ancestor may not have been on contract but came under his own steam, as it were, in which case he would be known as a 'passenger Indian', and of this group there is no index available.
In any case it is often very difficult to correlate a name appearing on the hips Lists as, strictly speaking, these migrants did not have surnames, and the names they did have were variously interpreted by the clerks who recorded their arrival in SA. The whole topic of indentured migrants is very complex and I can't go into it all here, especially as I do not have much information to start with. You should try to glean some further details from family members and to search for relevant estate and other documents which may be held by archives, using the NAAIRS index.
bet wishes, Mole
hi there. My uncle recently passed away and we came across his birth certificate. next to his dad's and mum's names were a set of 2 numbers. could this be the numbers of their parents who came across from india and how does one check if they were on the ships
ReplyDeletehi there. My uncle recently passed away and we came across his birth certificate. Next to his dad's and mum's names were a set of 2 numbers. Example - next to his fathers name was the number 64461 with a line underneath and then another number 67150 written below it. Could this be the numbers of their parents who came across from india and how does one check if they were on the ships
ReplyDeleteThe numbers could be registration numbers i.e. given to each indentured migrant on arrival in Natal. However, I know nothing of the other facts in the case. It isn't impossible that these were so-called Colonial numbers - i.e. given to people who were born in Natal (not the original migrants therefore). As to the migrant lists, you could buy a CD of the index from GSSA (Genealogical Society of SA) - it is CD 011. But the index is not a magic wand and needs to be interpreted using other facts about the migrants.
ReplyDeleteGood evening
ReplyDeleteI have an identity Card (South African) of my great grandfather. it starts with an 800 number. would i be able to find his ship list number at the archives in Durban using this number?
Kind Regards
I am not sure what sort of 'identity card' you refer to. As you don't give much info it is difficult to advise you. You would need to have the ancestor's name and at least an approximate year of arrival would help. Then you would have to search the so-called Ship's Lists - via the Migrants' Index. A CD ROM copy of this index is available from the GSSA (Genealogical Society of South Africa)details of the Soc addresses etc you will find on Google. The CD is GSSA CD 011 ISBN 978 0 9869742 2 9. Be warned, this index, though very useful, is not a magic wand and it is not easy to identify the specific ancestor - e.g. many names are similar or even identical, and you may need some idea of a district of origin, at least, in India, to be able to pinpoint the person you seek. Spouse names can be helpful, religion and other details also.Anything that makes the individual stand out in the index. The original registers of indentured migrants to Natal are held at Durban Archives but it is impossible to work from these handwritten documents - which is why the Migrants' Index was produced. (By amazing volunteers who worked on it for years.) Final point: are you sure that your ancestor was an indentured migrant? If he was a so-called Passenger Indian there is currently no index for such immigrants who came under their own steam - paid their passage out.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your Response.
ReplyDeleteBefore the the 13 Digit ID number became the norm the south african Citizens were issued other numbers called the identity numbers. My great grandfather had take on the citizenship and was issued this number. My greatgrandfathers number was 800 488590 A, his wife was 800 486601 A. These numbers were issued on the 1.7.1959.
their grandchildren (including my father also had this type of number on his marriage certificate.
Regards
Parameshrie
Hi Parameshrie, your best bet is to acquire the CD Index as I mentioned in my first response but you will need a name to look up and if you have any clue as to year of arrival that would be helpful. The numbers you give will not tie up to the Migrants' Index. If you would like to give me the name/s involved I could see if I can advise you further. At the moment I am mostly in the dark and need details. What do you know other than these identity numbers? Name of ancestor, name of spouse, approx year of arrival, did they come out as young children with parents or as adults, perhaps already married?
ReplyDeleteHi all, I've also been doing a lot of research on indentured Indians in SA, and have managed to find a good majority of my family tree based on indentured numbers. When 2 or more indentured numbers are placed together either with a / or // it indicates the marriage between 2 members. So for example, 1 Indian woman numbered 5551 married an Indian man numbered 5351, when they have children, the child's "ID" number will be 5351/5551. Unfortunately this number trail was only used until the 1950's when ID numbers were introduced for Indians beginning with 800 ******. This blog explains it in a lot more detail https://thelifeofnicks.wordpress.com/ Sorry Mole-I'm by no means trying to punt another blog, but just thought it might help. Feel free to remove the comment if inappropriate.
ReplyDeleteHello Nicole: it is pleasing that at long last others (dare I add, of the younger generation?) are beginning to take an interest in the indentured immigrants and to provide notes on their own research experience, as you have done on your blog which I read with interest. You may wish to make a correction on your pages where you refer to the ships lists online - this URL is no longer functional: http://scnc.ukzn.ac.za/doc/SHIP/shipndx.html It would be better to suggest that researchers acquire the CD of Prof Brain's Migrants'Index,available at minimal cost from GSSA (Genealogical Society of South Africa. I am not affiliated to this institution! but have found the index a very useful tool for research. It is, however, NOT a magic wand and it is essential that researchers have some specific details such as spouse name etc in order to identify the correct ancestor on the index. Best Wishes, Mole
ReplyDeleteHi Mole! Thanks for the reply :) and yes safe to say I am of the younger generation-however I wish I had started earlier. That's strange that you say the URL is no longer functional-as I'm still able to access it, perhaps it was offline for a period of time? But it appears to be back on again. Your comment is very true, as many people try to use these techniques as a simple Google search, but I've spent many many frustrating hours trying to make connections with different family members. It has been so rewarding! I still have a few connections to make, and look forward to solving the mysteries! Thanks for your blog Mole, it's been a huge help for me too as there is not much information on researching Indentured Indians in SA. Keep well!
ReplyDeleteNicole, the ships list, as they insist on calling it, is back online at that URL today after month of no access. I don't know the reason for the access problem; people have complained about it to me for months so it is not just me having the difficulty. In any case, frankly the info is of little value for those seeking ancestors whose registration number is unknown since the online lists provided by Mr Chetty are only searchable by number not by name or any other detail. Whereas the Migrants Index presents a wealth of detail concerning each migrant - I do recommend that you, particularly, should get a copy of that CD from GSSA as you may be able to help others as I have done, using that source.Remember that the Migrants Index was compiled from the original records made at the point of arrival in Natal. Yes there are problems such as different spellings etc but if the researcher has done his/her homework and established some other details as an aid in identification, the Migrant Index can be enormously helpful. The other problem is that some family historians expect to be able to pinpoint the precise place of origin of their ancestor/s - this is often impossible and some small villages have disappeared from the map due to famine and other natural causes. Or their names have been changed, or the place is now under a different larger district etc etc. I'm glad you have found my blog helpful.Have you read Inside Indenture by Desai and Vahed? A more in-depth look at the history of these migrants and what happened to them in Natal. I believe it has been published in a 2nd edition with a slightly different title, just 'Indenture', perhaps. Well worth ploughing through, jam-packed with information.Anyone researching indentured immigrants must realise from the start that it there is no instant solution and the researcher needs to give input that will assist in identifying the ancestor/s either on the Migrants Index or on NAAIRS Index - the latter can offer deceased estate and other files which can lead back to earlier generations of the family. www.national.archives.gov.za use the NAB (Natal) database for your earches on NAAIRS.
ReplyDeletehi mole
ReplyDeleteI am currently trying to trace my genealogy. My great great grandparents came to South Africa as indentured laborers from India. I currently have some of their immigration papers with their colonial numbers on my father's mothers side. How will i be able to trace my father's fathers side using my uncle's (my father's brother) birth certificate?
Hi Tamryn,I am not sure how your uncle's birth certificate would help with your particular search - other than providing the names of the parents of that individual. A Death Notice (part of a deceased estate file if there is one) for your uncle or for your father would be more helpful. Have you acquired the Indian migrants index on CD from GSSA (Genealogical Soc of SA)? That would be useful. Google GSSA and write to ask them for the CD. Minimal cost.
ReplyDeletePS to Tamryn - see NAAIRS www.national.archives.gov.za for deceased estates under database NAB (Natal)- that is where to find Death Notices if there are any linked to your family. Pietermaritzburg Archives is where the original are held. Best Wishes, Mole
ReplyDeleteHi, I am Lawrence , I been searching found a lot of information . I had the original ship list of 1911 with ship names etc . I just have one problem . I cant seem to locate the actual origins. Its state BASTI , PASWA. I can only pick up this in Nepal . And My grandfathers surname in the list is Nepal . I heard something sometime ago ,saying that they names came from the places they came from . This is pointing me very close to Kathmandu. I checked the caste ,which is Kurmi and it matches. But just dont feel comfortable although strangely other BASTI areas outside Nepal dont rely give me such accuracy. Could it be or do I look with other details .
ReplyDeleteHi, On the day of its launch in don, bought and paid for the cd you refer to. Two years later, the cd is unreadable on any computer!!!! Where to from here? Pls advise.
ReplyDeleteHi there, I have managed to trace back through the ship list who I think is my great great grand father. Using the indenture number associated, what further information can I obtain to verify this.
ReplyDeleteAlso would it be possible to link this to any records in Indian that will able be able to trace me back to obtain any family on that side?
Kind regards
Vishanth
I regret I can no longer answer queries on Indian ancestry due to their sheer volume and also due to my eyesight problems.
ReplyDeleteRekha, CDs unfortunately do deteriorate. I replaced my copy of that CD 3 times.
Vishanth, you should check NAAIRS, our national archives index, searching on NAB database (Natal)and using the name and number of the ancestor you seek. Also you should trace back from yourself, your parents, g parents and so on, using deceased estate records on NAAIRS and following these up at archives. This would give more information but NOT about the India end. That is much more problematic - records may be lost, placenames changed etc. Note that the person you have found is only a POSSIBLE contender for your ancestor. Names were taken down incorrectly on arrival, or a different name may have been used on the ship etc. It is too big a topic to go into here. Sorry.
Regards, Mole
Thanks Mole. Good to know that someone else (you) had the same issue as me. I don't wish to bother you further but would appreciate if you could let me know where/who I can order a new CD. Thanks a million for spending your valuable time helping others. Much much appreciated. Namaste
ReplyDeleteOops Mole. Don't worry with answer. I found your reply to someone's post so I know where to order the CD. Bless you
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome Rekha. Good luck with getting a new CD, shouldn't be difficult, let me know if any problems. And best wishes for your further research. Regards, Mole
ReplyDeleteNamaste Mole, thank you so much. Bless you, Rekha
ReplyDeleteHi
ReplyDeleteI have copy of registration of births of Indians.
Under indentured or free it says CB.
What does CB mean.
Under parents official numbers has a few numbers 6627/138/1776/1777.
Is there anything I can use to trace
Hi Esme,
ReplyDeleteAs far as I understand it, CB means colonial birth, which indicates that that they were born to someone who did not come to SA as an indentured immigrant, but likely paid for their own travel to SA in order to work freely. I have yet to find a record of how these people were registered or acknowledged in terms of their entry into SA.
In terms of the numbers you have, they relate to the indentured numbers. This blog explains it in a lot more detail https://thelifeofnicks.wordpress.com/.
Hope that helps!
Hi it does thank you so much for the help
DeleteHello is this post still active?
DeleteThere is no index for the so-called passenger indians who came to Natal under their own steam, so to speak, paying for their own passage and not under an indentured contract. The indentured migrants records were indexed a while ago by the efforts of Dr Brain and her volunteers, using the original hand-written registers held at Durban Archives. I believe there are some documents in Pretoria Archives pertaining to passenger indian arrivals, but nothing collated or easily accessible.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, one can obtain a CD of the Migrants Index from the Genealogical Society of South Africa for a small fee. Be aware that the index is not a magic wand and that the information on it requires interpretation. Best Wishes, Mole
Thank you
DeleteHi! This is a fantastic blog; thank you so much for your valuable service.
ReplyDeleteI am a South Aftrican Indian, and would like to trace my roots to the first forefather who came to South Africa. Would they be able to do so based on my name and ID number?
I have tried emailing the Durban Archives, but their email address keeps bouncing back; can you assist?
Thank you kindly for your time.
Hi Suren. A few questions arising from your comment: are you under the impression that your ancestor was among the indentured migrants who began coming to Natal from India from 1860? If your ancestor was one of the so-called 'passenger Indians' who paid for their passage out and were able to make their own way in Natal, there is currently no index to such people. The indentured migrant index was compiled from original registers held in Durban Archives; you can obtain a CD of the index from the Genealogical Society of South Africa. However, the index is not a magic wand, and you would need to know a name for the ancestor, and other helpful details would include place of origin, religion/caste etc. In many cases, such details are not available to descendants. Also there are large numbers of names on the index which may seem the same or similar and it is identifying the correct individual which is most important. To answer your question, your own name and ID number would not be a good starting point for your research. First of all, discuss with older family members any memory they may have regarding their ancestry, especially the name of the original ancestor, and his/her spouse. If your grandparents are still living, they may be able to help with this. If they are deceased you could try to find deceased estate files for the grandparents to see if any further details occur in the Death Notices regarding the original ancestor such as place of origin and a name (the Indian culture as you know did not have surnames as such in the 19th c). To check for deceased estates for comparatively recently deceased relatives go to the NAAIRS index online at www.national.archives.gov.za Use the NAB database. These references go to about 1975 on NAAIRS. You can see the original files, should you find relevant ones, at Pietermaritzburg Archives. The Death Notices are informative but will not provide all the details you require.You do realise that your research will need to be hands-on - there aren't any researchers as far as I know who take on individual research for indentured migrants at present. So familiarise yourself with NAAIRS, and get as much info as you can out of the family. Good luck! Best Wishes, Mole
ReplyDeleteI have found ancestor's details on the shipping list. How do I get a copy of their naturalisation documents or reference in the archives if it is not on the NAAIRS site.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately the type of documentation you want is in many cases not readily available. Read through the posts under Indian immigrants or migrants on this blog and also read through the comments. When you say no reference showed on NAAIRS you may be looking on that online index for your original ancestor/s. NAAIRS is primarily helpful with deceased estates of more recent relatives e.g. your parents or grandparents, rather than the earliest arrivals in Natal. You need to work methodically back from the most recently deceased relatives' estate files to the next generation back and so on to collect all references relating to descendants of the migrant ancestor/s. In each estate file (if an estate was lodged with Master of Supreme Court) there should be a Death Notice which is an informative document. There are no quick fixes when tracing migrant ancestors who came to Natal. Do you fully understand the data given on on the so-called ships list? Sometimes the finer points are ignored and can be helpful if trying to establish precise place of origin etc. I can't go into too much detail here but hope this is of some assistance.
ReplyDeleteHi Akash your comment covers a lot of ground and you have provided no information or clues about your ancestors to allow me to make some suggestions in this small space. You could contact me by email: dixonsmithbygad@eastcoast.co.za and we could explore further. I do not do private research for others any more, having retired. However I may be able to start you off in the right direction. Best, Mole.
ReplyDeleteHi
ReplyDeleteany ideas of how to trace whereabouts of my grand parents ,who were indentured labourers, i have their shipping no. i'm interested in the date,time of death and place of burial . i have been to the Dept. of Home Affairs in Umgeni Rd but was rudely chased away from there . stating that no info on hand and all my details belong to apartheid era and not valid. please point in t right direction for greatlr appreciated.
Rgds
Mohammed
Hello Mohammed, may I suggest you search the SA National Archives Index at www.national.archives.gov.za on the database NAB (Natal) and see if a deceased estate file exists for your grandfather. Search on his name and give a date parameter if you are not certain when he died. The Death Notice contained in the file, if one is found, should be informative. Any original file must be seen at Pietermaritzburg Archives - or delegated to a private researcher who would take digital photos if you cannot go yourself. Regards, Mole
ReplyDeleteGood day
ReplyDeleteMy mum passed away in March 2017, age 65. We were going through her personal belongings and came across this important document, " UNION OF SOUTH AFRICA. A COPY FROM REGISTER OF BIRTHS OF INDIAN IMMIGRANTS IN THE PROVINCE OF NATAL - SCHEDULE F, LAW No.25 OF 1891." It seems that this document belongs to my late mum's, mother (my grandmother).
I would like to trace the descendants of my migrant ancestors.
There are various numbers on this document, not sure which is applicable.
Parents official number [Kistnasamy (Father) 32875 or 34875; Nagamma (mother) 53183].
Register no.1667 (underneath this number is 1934).
On top right corner is A126192
Any kind of assistance would be highly appreciated.
Regards
Devandran Govender
Hello - the following reference on NAAIRS may apply to your grandparents - it is the 1966 deceased estate file for Kistnasamy with a spouse named Nagamah who survives him. It mentions that he is colonial born so a number shown after name in your document may be a colonial number, not the same as the Registration number which migrants were given on arrival in Natal. Seems it would have been your GREAT GRANDPARENTS who were the original migrants. Spelling of Nagamma may differ from the way you believe it was spelt. This is not important. I think you should try and get a look at the estate file as it may give brief info about Kistnasamy's parents. See it yourself or get a private researcher to digitally photo it for you at Pietermaritzburg Archives. Here is the full file ref you need to see the file.
ReplyDeleteDEPOT NAB
SOURCE MSCE
TYPE LEER
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 1159/1966
PART 1
DESCRIPTION KISTNASAMY. COLONIAL BORN. S SP NAGAMAH. DECEASED ESTATE.
STARTING 19660000
ENDING 19670000
REMARKS NO FURTHER INFORMATION GIVEN.
Good day
ReplyDeleteI am trying to track any documentation on one Veerasamy Chainee /Mestry from Chingelput in India that arrived in South Africa
The name does not appear in any ships list i have already researched, and the only document I have is of his son Chinsammy Chainee and a file Number (illegible character32966 saying Passenger ) last known to have lived in Bethal (old Tvl) according to other documents searched file 32966 is not related.
is there a list of passenger indian immigrants anywhere?
Thank you in advance
Danny P Dev
Unfortunately there is no index or list of so-called Passenger Indians i.e. those who came out paying their own way and were not indentured migrant workers. Sorry, Danny.
ReplyDeleteGood afternoon,I have traced my great grandfathers details on the Ukzn ships list.Name of ship - Sophia Joakim.Date of arrival - August 1883.Colonial no:29863.Name - Jiawon.Fathers name - Mungroo.Zillah - Pertabgurh.Thanna - Puthi.Village - Nanaipura.I have visited the Patti district in Pratapgarh(New spelling) but could not find the village of Nanaipura.Could you please advise on the way forward.Thank you in advance.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately some villages may have disappeared from any maps due to events such as famine or flood. The best bet is to find Ordinance Survey Maps of the period during which your ancestor came out from India on which the village may still be marked. Mr K Chetty at the Documentation Centre may be able to help with such maps. See http://scnc.ukzn.ac.za/doc/SHIP/guidelines.html
ReplyDeleteHi there Mole. Thanks for creating this blog.
ReplyDeleteI have been tracing my ancestry for 2 years now, as I want to live permanently in India I did trace my ancestor who arrived on the ship. But his son ( my great great great grandfather) there is no ID Although his name appears on my granfather’s Pass. Also another question- how do we locate a person’s ID number from their 800 number?
Thanks
Nish
Regret that I can't answer your questions satisfactorily. For one thing I am not sure what you are referring to as an '800 number' or how this could be used to locate an ID number. ID numbers only came into being in 1950 so it is possible for an ancestor not to have such a number depending on his date.
ReplyDeleteYou may want to try searching NAAIRS our national archives index for deceased estates for your ancestors - the Death Notice, again depending on date, may provide an ID number. All the best, Mole
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI am in possession of my great grand dads military documents. I am trying to trace his arrival in S.A. and possibly trace his parents etc back to India. Furthermore he also married here in S.A. so i would like to trace my great grand moms relatives as well.
Hello Nien, your enquiry covers a broad area and I can't really attempt to answer it in detail here. May I suggest that you read through all the comments posted on this blog as well as going back to the archived posts by using the search facility (top left hand corner of the page) entering 'Indian Migrants', 'Indian immigration' etc. This would give you a great deal of basic information collated by me over several years and suggest avenues of research for you to follow. I regret I no longer take on private research for individuals. Arrivals in SA for Indentured Indians are an entire subject on their own and unless you have some idea of year of arrival plus at least one or two further clues it would be difficult to make progress. Make certain that the ancestor was in fact an indentured migrant rather than one of the so-called 'passenger Indians' as these arrived independently and there is no index to them. I am not sure what military docs you have and in any case this is not my area of expertise.
ReplyDeleteA marriage record may be possible to find - but not if it was a 'traditional' Indian marriage. Thanks for your comment and interest. Best Wishes, Mole
Hi Mole,
ReplyDeleteMany thanks for your mail, this is very helpful. My last question is do you perhaps recognize the following number format as I am told this is his ID number. 240868.1B
240868.1B does not seem a recognisable format to me. But I am not expert on later numbers given to descendants of the original Indian migrant. The only number associated with the original migrant is the one given to them on arrival at Port Natal and this remains with them for the rest of their time here. Later, their descendants may be given a Colonial Number indicating they were born in Natal. This might appear on a Death Notice for the descendant. Where did you acquire the number if I may ask? I regret I can't answer your question at present. I will come back to you if I make any progress. Mole.
ReplyDeleteHi Mole
ReplyDeleteThank you for the knowledge and insight provided through your blog and your responses to questions!
I have a copy of my grandmother's birth certificate. Her mother's (my great grandmother's) details are listed as follows:
Parents' Official numbers: 12054/7979/7930
Indentured or Free: C.B.
I think that CB means colonial born but I am not sure of the official number? What information would that provide me with?
Thank you in advance!
Kind regards,
Medha
May I suggest you read through the other posts on the topic of Indian Immigrants which appear on my blog. The search facility is at top left of the blog page.
ReplyDeleteCB does usually mean Colonial Born. You could try a search on the number on NAAIRS (SA National Archives Index) and see if anything comes up. I'm not certain how helpful such a number would be.
Best Wishes Mole
Good evening Mole.my grandfather died in 1945 on his abridged death certificate on the bottom right he has D/R 1836/45.my grandmother on her abridged birth certificate she hasI.I.5392/37.she also has the green id card which starts with 800 and ends with A.her parents and sister and brother was born in india.how can i get information about my great grandparents?
ReplyDeleteGood evening Mole.is there people who help to get information for you. Who goes through the archives for you and because they know how to acess the archives?
ReplyDeleteFirst you need to be certain whether your g grandparents were indentured immigrants or so-called passenger Indians. If they were the latter they would have travelled privately, not as large groups, and there is basically no register of their arrivals in Natal. For indentured immigrants you need at least a small number of details about the g grandparents to be able to make progress. There is an index of these indentured people produced by eGGSA, google their page to find out how to obtain a copy of the CD. But the index is no magic wand. You need personal information such as name of spouse to be able to pinpoint the correct ancestor on the index. Many of the names are the same, or very similar, some were taken down by clerks who did not speak the dialect of the immigrant and therefore there are errors. This is a big topic and I can't help much via the blog. Another route is to check for deceased estates of more recent ancestors. Find these on the online NAAIRS index under the Natal database. Information offered in the Death Notice varies from individual to individual. Best Wishes, Mole
ReplyDeleteI am retired now and do not undertake individual research through archives, though in the past did all my Indian Immigration work myself at various archives. Now I have moved on to other topics. However, you can use the Index which is available on CD from eGGSA at a few Rand, and there are other sources at Pietermaritzburg and Durban Archives, which you can visit in person. All the best, Mole
ReplyDeleteHi Mole. I have 2 numbers found on great grandparents ID cards. I have no idea where to start. Please would you point me in the right direction. Angela Pillay(E35655) M Govindsamy (E/847/53)
ReplyDeleteGood day I would like to know if there was any one who requested their home address in India Ian looking for family in fayzbad bikapur and Lucknow
ReplyDeleteI regret that the meaning of your comment is not clear to me. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteThank you for such an exciting blog and the information you provide.
ReplyDeleteI have managed to find my grandparents details on the ukzn ships list.
They arrived hn Durban in 1904 may on the ship Umzinto from Bikramanj Bihar.
What surprised me that on the ships register its says " residents of Guadeloupe ".
Any input regarding how this is possible.
Hi there. I have located my great father via the ship list. However I am strugglying to provide the link between my great grand father and grand father. (My grand father is deceased and unfortunately we dont have his unabridged certificate)
ReplyDeleteIs there a way to prove the link between the two?
Thanks
Kim: If you have the marriage certificate of your grandfather and grandmother, that will help.
ReplyDelete